Yohji Yamamoto: Why Did He Design Original Products for The Ginza That Are Different from the Y's Style?
The First Licensing Arrangement of Its Kind in Japan
From August, a new brand called ‘THE GINZA STORY BY YOHJI YAMAMOTO’ will appear as an original brand of ‘The Ginza.’ As can be understood from the brand name, the designer is none other than Yohji Yamamoto. In other words, one could say that it is a licensing agreement. However, strangely enough, there is almost nothing in these products that could be called the so-called ‘Y's style.’ Since it is another company's original brand, perhaps it would actually be a problem if it did have that style... So, with what sort of feelings did Mr. Yamamoto undertake this work? We spoke with Ms. Akiko of The Ginza's Product Planning Department and Mr. Yamamoto about the circumstances that led to this collaboration.
anan: I'd like to begin by asking you about the time when this project first came up.
Akiko: Yes. Don't you feel that the world is approaching a time when we have to change our ways of thinking? Even with clothes and the things we carry, although they change subtly throughout the year, there are cycles in which they change considerably. So, although the planning we had been doing until then was fine, we wanted to do something a little different... Then the question became who could discuss it with us and actually give it concrete form. I had been familiar with Mr. Yamamoto's clothes since his early days, and I thought that perhaps he was someone who could successfully give shape to this rather vague feeling we had. Until then, we hadn't had any connection through work, but I suddenly telephoned him and said I wanted to meet him. That was already two years ago.
anan: Was there a particular reason why it had to be Mr. Yamamoto?
Yamamoto: Well, because I seemed like someone who would do as he was told... (laughs)
Akiko: That's not true. Just looking at you, you seem difficult to approach, don't you? (laughs) A designer's way of thinking about things is reflected in the products, isn't it? Having looked at his clothes to a certain extent, I could imagine, at least somewhat, what sort of things this person was fundamentally capable of doing. So I had the feeling that even if we presented him with our concept as The Ginza, he would be able to handle it.
anan: When you were approached, Mr. Yamamoto, how did you feel?
Yamamoto: As a principle of our brand, we have the position that under-licensing and collaborative brands are not possible. Although calling it a principle might lead to some misunderstanding, the things I create are made right before my eyes. That's why I have resistance to the approach of simply putting my name on socks or slippers. However, on the other side of that, I was interested in working according to a theme given to me. The stricter the conditions are in design, the easier it is to work. It's more difficult when someone says, “Just make something, whatever you like.” If I make something that way, it simply ends up becoming a product of my own brand. So when someone says, “Under these conditions,” I had been thinking, “I can do that.”
anan: That's different from what's ordinarily called a licensing agreement, isn't it?
Yamamoto: Yes, that's right.
anan: Is it unusual in Japan?
Akiko: Rather than unusual, perhaps it's the first time. But what is called licensing in Europe is generally done in this way.
Yamamoto: Yes, yes.
Akiko: Apart from their own brands, some of the really prominent people have around 28 companies. And the products don't end up being in the style of that person's designs. Instead, they make things that are in accordance with the policies of the manufacturer or the store.
anan: For you, Mr. Yamamoto, what specifically were those conditions?
Yamamoto: For example, there is, first of all, the condition that The Ginza is not my own shop. What other kinds of things are lined up there—this is a difficult condition, isn't it? And then, there is the world that Ms. Akiko wants to create from now on. But by combining those things with my good points, if the money and talent are compatible, I think something good can be made, rather than something made entirely from within my own particular area of expertise.
Akiko: But from another angle, it should also be possible to bring out Mr. Yamamoto's good qualities, shouldn't it?
Yamamoto: Previously, when Claude Montana collaborated with a leather shop to make leather jumpers, watching from the sidelines, I thought that he seemed to be doing it quite easily. I thought that when someone who is capable of doing that work makes things according to that company's theme, if money and talent can be reconciled, it might actually be possible to make something better than making enough things to fill one boutique of your own.
anan: Was there a considerable amount of discussion about materials and design?
Akiko: I don't remember us having thorough discussions about each of those things individually.
Yamamoto: That's right. Ms. Akiko said, ‘I want to do it in jersey,’ so I thought, ‘Ah, then we can do it,’ and it was decided immediately. I had thought that if we used ordinary fabric, it would become Y's, so the moment I was told that she wanted to limit it to jersey, everything came together immediately in my head. (laughs)
Akiko: There are things that we wouldn't want to do in the same way as Mr. Yamamoto's own collection—or rather, things that we couldn't do. To have Mr. Yamamoto exercise his abilities in a different sense, to incorporate what we hope for, and moreover to have him finish things into something we want, I thought it would be better to narrow the scope. Even ten years from now, I intend to continue working with jersey.
anan: In any case, things proceeded relatively smoothly, then.
Yamamoto: If they don't proceed smoothly, you can't do this kind of work.
Akiko: It's a strange comparison, but it's like an omiai (arranged marriage meeting). (laughs) No matter how much you examine things, those that won't come together simply won't come together.
anan: Looking at the clothes this time, I wonder whether you had something like a sense of dissatisfaction or frustration inside you until now, Mr. Yamamoto?
Yamamoto: That's right. Otherwise, I couldn't have done it. So, you know, I've been thinking that perhaps I'm the kind of designer who could make about fifty contracts... (laughs)
anan: Did you have absolutely no thought of trying this within Y's?
Yamamoto: I didn't, and I thought I couldn't do it. The brand called Y's has a certain role that it carries, or a certain way of holding its shoulders, a certain way of asserting itself. Unless something is a little formidable-looking, it won't pass as a product. So, if I was going to do it, I thought it had to be in a different world...
anan: If you were to express the difference from Y's in words, how would you describe it?
Yamamoto: Hmm. First of all, what I took as the basis was clothing that isn't getting worked up about itself. To put it positively, it's light and unconstrained. To put it negatively, it's a little irresponsible. I valued that kind of feeling. Because my own brand gets terribly worked up about things.
anan: How did you feel when the finished products came back?
Akiko: For my part, I felt they were exactly what I had expected.
Yamamoto: I was a little flustered, or something like that... After all, they're not Y's. I had a kind of moment of panic, thinking, ‘Am I actually in there?’ or ‘Huh?’ It's something that, unless I look at it carefully, even I begin not to understand...”
Akiko: Your presence is there. It's all right.
anan: If it sells extremely well, wouldn't that, conversely, cause difficulties for the Y's shops?
Yamamoto: I'll have them wholesale it to me. (laughs)
Akiko: But I do have a feeling that it might gain a group of regular, devoted customers.
anan: You're also working on tights, stoles, and shoes, aren't you?
Akiko: Since it's the first time, we've developed the collection modestly, but there's a possibility that it will increase in the future.
anan: By the way, Mr. Yamamoto, how had you viewed the shop called ‘The Ginza’ up to now?
Yamamoto: For a long time, I'd been thinking, ‘Why aren't my products here?’ (laughs) But there was also the fact that I couldn't change my course just for that reason.
